OC-Tech: Micah Sifry key note

<p>Micah has started his keynote by saying that he would like this to be an anti keynote. His one requirement was that there be real time chat.</p> <p>Democracy in america is changing. Organic and federated organizations don't exist anymore.</p> <p>Politics is top down (command and control) and driven by elites (focus groups tested, mass media driven.)</p> <p>So blogs are doubling every 2 months. the posting to blogs is really a barometer on the "World Live Web" (micah's words)<br /> [lk:boingboing.net]<br /> "the most popular blog site on the web"<br /> It has thousands of incoming links.</p> <p>[dic:amateur]: amore, love, people who do things because they are passionate about something ([l:http://journalism.nyu.edu/pubzone/weblogs/pressthink|Jay Rosen] NYU professor)</p> <p>So how is blogging effecting democracy: "The Newsroom has left the building" that is what chris nollen (?) says.</p> <p>[lk:http://dangillmor.typepad.com|Dan Gillmor] says "My readers know more than me"</p> <p>Organizations need to open up the process to their members, or their members will leave them. So i wonder, what is the longterm role of organizations? Do we need organizations, or can we self organize to solve problems? The internet can be the medium for maintaining organizationsal knowledge.</p> <p>Trust and reputation becomes much more important in a word of distributed media and distributed activist. Bloggers have their reputations.<br /> Transparency is important to building the trust and reputation.</p> <p>I enjoyed the keynote anad the live chat. Much more so than the keynote at NTEN, i actually paidee pretty good attention while live chatting, and drying to blog. Just a note on how this is going to work. I will write up an overall blog post about the entire conference, in addition ot these more "notes for me" blog posts. So in a few days, the overall wrap up email will be up on my blog.</p> <p>and below is the live chat:<br /> [06:19] whispers: Welcome to ARSC 3.0!<br /> [06:19] User GregoryHeller enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:22] User Alison enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:22] User fronttable enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:22] Hi Rich<br /> [06:22] Hi Everyone<br /> [06:22] I will be blogging hte conference at <a href="http://www.gregoryheller.com" title="http://www.gregoryheller.com">http://www.gregoryheller.com</a><br /> [06:23] this is a live chat<br /> [06:23] Gregory, Aldon is blogging also at the web site <a href="http://oc-tech.org" title="http://oc-tech.org">http://oc-tech.org</a><br /> [06:23] User Micah enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:23] but most likely i won't be spell checking ;-)<br /> [06:23] User nonecknoel enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:23] hi everybody<br /> [06:23] hi<br /> [06:24] can i backchat during the keynote?<br /> [06:24] can you talk and type at the same time Micah?<br /> [06:24] i can<br /> [06:25] hi<br /> [06:25] oooh, a web chat!<br /> [06:25] User nonecknoel leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:25] maybe you should just give your talk via webchat<br /> [06:25] it's tempting<br /> [06:26] anyone sitting in the back won't be able to read it because the projector image is too small<br /> [06:26] hmm, did my color change?<br /> [06:26] yes<br /> [06:27] User DanHogan enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:27] User aldon enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:27] hi aldon!<br /> [06:27] are there any folks who want to have focused discussion at lunch other than that one?<br /> [06:27] Hi, everyond, yes, I'm catting and blogging<br /> [06:27] User nonecknoel enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:27] where are you blogging aldon?<br /> [06:27] what topic gregory?<br /> [06:28] I will add stuff to <a href="http://oc-tech.org" title="http://oc-tech.org">http://oc-tech.org</a><br /> [06:28] this chat software is not very safari frendly<br /> [06:28] it's a virtual chat<br /> [06:28] this is so embarrassing!<br /> [06:29] I am not sure what topic, i am thinking…. open source, civicspace civicrm<br /> [06:29] good god, i hope i answered that email<br /> [06:29] i want to add my feed to the oc-tech.org<br /> [06:29] oh no!<br /> [06:30] if there is any admin for oc-tech can you add my feed? <a href="http://gregoryheller.com/?q=blog/feed" title="http://gregoryheller.com/?q=blog/feed">http://gregoryheller.com/?q=blog/feed</a><br /> [06:30] sure gregory<br /> [06:30] thanks alison<br /> [06:31] no problem, but it seems as if it is already there <a href="http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources" title="http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources">http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources</a><br /> [06:31] User Daniell enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:31] <a href="http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources/3" title="http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources/3">http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources/3</a><br /> [06:32] User DaniellKrawczyk leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:32] /greencard/<br /> [06:32] well that seems to just be my delicious feed<br /> [06:33] ah<br /> [06:33] tags are for nerds<br /> [06:34] User Emily_Thorson leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:34] User Emily_Thorson enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:34] User Emily_Thorson leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:34] User Emily_Thorson enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:34] User Emily_Thorson leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:34] User Emily_Thorson enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:34] this is actually the rss to my oc-tech feed <a href="http://gregoryheller.com/?q=taxonomy/term/7/0/feed" title="http://gregoryheller.com/?q=taxonomy/term/7/0/feed">http://gregoryheller.com/?q=taxonomy/term/7/0/feed</a><br /> [06:35] no<br /> [06:35] /redcard/<br /> [06:35] ohh the shades<br /> [06:35] now i can see<br /> [06:35] User Emily_Thorson enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:35] User Emily_Thorson leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:35] /yellowcard/<br /> [06:35] User Spriggs enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:36] <a href="http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources/5" title="http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources/5">http://oc-tech.org/aggregator/sources/5</a><br /> [06:36] Like, this caht….<br /> [06:37] Each one of us can participate in the chat at the same time as listening to Micah's broadcast<br /> [06:37] we don't need no stinkin' badges!<br /> [06:37] Gregory, I'm glad we have badges. I don't know what you look like.<br /> [06:37] and you don't want to<br /> [06:37] User Taylorgus enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:37] you can go to my website and see a picture (or check my foaf, just kiddding)<br /> [06:38] <a href="http://www.dailykos.com" title="http://www.dailykos.com">http://www.dailykos.com</a><br /> [06:38] <a href="http://www.dailykos.com" title="http://www.dailykos.com">http://www.dailykos.com</a><br /> [06:39] OK, so the cost of communicating has gone way down, but as more folks learn how to take advantage of that isn't there going to tend to be saturation?<br /> [06:39] I think reputaions will start being more important…<br /> [06:39] that's a good point taylorgus<br /> [06:39] so what format are we going to use for that aldon?<br /> [06:39] lunch discussion on tagging, whos in? like del.icio.us and flickr<br /> [06:39] yeah but how do i find these thoughts?<br /> [06:39] Of course, MSNBC's audience isn't very big…..<br /> [06:39] Aggregation tools, filtering, all of that will help people<br /> [06:40] that's tools, but what format<br /> [06:40] I'm not sure format matters all that much.<br /> [06:40] yeah, ok tagging, but then how to i filter the crap?<br /> [06:40] Whatever format people like.<br /> [06:40] trust brokers also, and that is what the major blogs have really become, they point to the best reporting from the fringe<br /> [06:40] User Jill leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:40] User Jill enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:40] netocracy is a book that discusses this issue<br /> [06:41] well, micah, Andrea Stewart Cousins lost her election in NYS Senate by 18 votes<br /> [06:41] User JAresty enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:41] but we are still talking the fringe and how do we validate their convestation?<br /> [06:41] User Jill leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:41] how do we get that message out to folks though, and how do we explain why hundreds of votes were not couted<br /> [06:41] So to what extent do we think that online successes like MoveOn and the JibJab ad are replicable by less tech-savvy folks?<br /> [06:41] I think 'fringe' is the wrong way of looking at it.<br /> [06:42] Many great political motions start from the 'edges'<br /> [06:42] there was also a chicago mayors race that was supposed to be won by the incumbent by like 80% but everyone knew that so no one showed up and the other guy won<br /> [06:42] User Jill enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:42] i mean frings in the network centric use of the term, the edge of the network<br /> [06:42] then how elese do i view the geeks screaming online?<br /> [06:42] It is the edges that where so much political change comes from<br /> [06:42] BOO to meetup.com<br /> [06:42] why BOO?<br /> [06:42] Knitting and Pugs are VERY important.<br /> [06:42] they just changed their funding structure again to make it harder for people to start their engagement<br /> [06:43] as i recently heard the pugs group has been organizing politically for more dog runs<br /> [06:43] they're now going to charge organizer for every month<br /> [06:43] meetup is now charging<br /> [06:43] I would argue that over the past 25 years the radical right used mass communication strategies (among lots of other things) and construction of an idea infrastructure ot move from the finge to the center.<br /> [06:43] Meet with knitters, that is how you get new people invovled.<br /> [06:43] $9 a month<br /> [06:43] $19 if you don't sign up asap<br /> [06:43] Taylor, the right also used local groups, especially churches, very effectively.<br /> [06:43] Absolutely.<br /> [06:43] ah well, sustainability is tough.<br /> [06:44] The combined very effective grassroots organizing with a conscious infrastructure to make their ideology mainstream (plus they had the money to fund it all).<br /> [06:44] i wish meetup groups should have a sponsor… like aa sponsored by budwiser<br /> [06:44] Do we really still believe that the digital divide is racial? no, it is as he just said, about size of the pipe<br /> [06:44] their is a digital divide – but this is an opportunity<br /> [06:45] The real question is, what are we doing to help bridge the divide.<br /> [06:45] well not everyone has a pip<br /> [06:45] and how about texting as a way to bridge the divide<br /> [06:45] ggunner from asperation talked about it at NTTEN, other countries everyone is texxting<br /> [06:45] people in other parts of the world use much less expensive technology to go online<br /> [06:45] Municipal wireless and municipal broadband is very important to help bridge the divide<br /> [06:45] along with good mentoring programs.<br /> [06:45] the real world is the bidge…<br /> [06:45] oh and as for wifi, you can find links to the stratellite story on my blog<br /> [06:45] we are used to computers here, but elsewhere, phones to satellite will be the connection online<br /> [06:45] Rural areas are also an issue.<br /> [06:46] aldon, verizon is trying to sue philly for municipal broadban wifi<br /> [06:46] Rural is a big issue, and those are areas where Muni Wifi and Muni Wireless can have a great effect<br /> [06:46] sms address books… <a href="http://www.sms.ac/" title="http://www.sms.ac/">http://www.sms.ac/</a><br /> [06:46] My ED lives where there is no cable or other broadband connection at all. He's stuck with dial up until satellite internet is more available.<br /> [06:46] User DanHogan leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:46] Taylor he could go with pegasus satellite internet<br /> [06:47] oh, you said that, doh<br /> [06:47] Gregory, there is a lot of efforts by Verizon and SBG trying to thwart muni wireless and muni broadband…<br /> [06:47] But, there are good grassroots organizations fighting back<br /> [06:47] So again, won't we quickly reach blog saturation?<br /> [06:47] we should all be fighting back<br /> [06:48] no taylorgus<br /> [06:48] because…<br /> [06:48] but people don;t read so many of these blogs. are they counting my blog on myspace and my blog on friendster?<br /> [06:48] i never update them<br /> [06:48] that's a lot of people talkin smack.<br /> [06:48] Everyone is writing, how many are reading?<br /> [06:48] …Because?<br /> [06:48] how do i know where to find them…<br /> [06:48] a) they are interconnected, b) a lot of blogs stop (as micah just said), but also I'm interested in blogs based on my work, my hobbies, my friends, my family)<br /> [06:49] Aldon – Trying to read but hard to follow some of the conversations.<br /> [06:49] User scott enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:49] I frequently, especially when I don't have anything to say<br /> [06:49] while no one has time to read all of them but skimming them is reasonable<br /> [06:49] oh no<br /> [06:49] and aggregators are going to become a hugely important piece of software=<br /> [06:49] I think the interconnectivity is extremely important<br /> [06:50] I agree with you on aggregators, Alison<br /> [06:50] well how many rss feeds can a human really consume without spending time on line<br /> [06:50] Using an RSS feed, you can track what is really important to you<br /> [06:50] i had to exchange 7 locks to kryptonite<br /> [06:51] If you know how….<br /> [06:51] that was something like $250 in locks and shipping<br /> [06:51] i've got 1000 feeds that read… and very rarely reall read<br /> [06:51] /greencard/<br /> [06:51] as many peopel blogging about te stupor bowl as the election<br /> [06:51] i like the phrase "world live web"<br /> [06:51] all of them<br /> [06:51] World Live Web…<br /> [06:52] Hard to read… I wonder if he includes Wikipedia…<br /> [06:52] Wikipedia now gets more traffic than NY Times<br /> [06:52] boingboing rules<br /> [06:53] and your isp kills you with fees<br /> [06:53] the world on add<br /> [06:53] lol gregory<br /> [06:53] User randydiv enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:54] love the speaker but two counterpoints to offer: Counterpoint #1: Asynchronous threaded groupware generally more helpful than synchronous, since allows more time for thoughtful reflection, editing, and higher-quality writing. Counterpoint #2: While I applaud speaker for wanting to engage all in the room rather than just deliver a one-on-many powerpoint, I actually think … (cont)<br /> [06:54] man i can recal when slashdot was on top<br /> [06:55] ….a sufficiently engaging presenter with good content shouldn't dilute his/her message when we're fortunate enough to all come together for an event like this.<br /> [06:55] Scott, that is a big issue that we've talked a lot about during conferences with chats going on.<br /> [06:55] User Andrew enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:55] I generally find keynotes the least interesting and useful part of conferences.<br /> [06:55] while I think this is all important for people to know, micah isn't stating it's importance<br /> [06:55] it's tough to listen, take notes, and participate in the chat; i'm trying!!!<br /> [06:56] …for example, while I was just writing my post I wasn't given Micah my full attention, and what he has to say is pretty damn good… so I'm going to stop posting for a moment and listen to Micah!<br /> [06:56] –and frankly many of us know what micah is talking about, i read PDF, i read Pew reports…<br /> [06:56] he has very good information, so I want to listen, then occassionally shift back here<br /> [06:56] chat.oc-tech.org<br /> [06:57] User Marty enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:57] andrew, what did you do?!?!<br /> [06:57] User kburki enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:57] ;-)<br /> [06:57] User robert enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:57] i have no idea<br /> [06:57] User laleenda enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:57] I think that the 'everyone will be famous for fifteen people' ties nicely to the issue of how to deal with the number of blogs out there.<br /> [06:57] THANK GOD<br /> [06:57] i just pressed enter under room list<br /> [06:57] User ethanw enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:57] This chat seems to be a little sketchy in Firefox<br /> [06:57] Death of TV! interactive entertainment like <a href="http://www.ilovebees.com" title="www.ilovebees.com">www.ilovebees.com</a><br /> [06:58] Working for me in Firefox.<br /> [06:58] im on firefox too<br /> [06:58] jill, it's working okay for me in firefox<br /> [06:58] "Real human voices telling real stories" – not always REAL… lots of disinformation, rumor, and myth as well.<br /> [06:58] stuck on transferring data<br /> [06:58] User PattyK enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:58] User tmur enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:58] User tmur enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:58] Guess nobody want to admit that they're using IE….<br /> [06:58] User Andrew leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:58] what the chat does do is keep me totally engaged in what's going on – so on balance this is good<br /> [06:58] User JTones enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [06:58] i'm on ff no probs<br /> [06:59] /yellowcard/<br /> [06:59] Do we think that internet communication is expanding overall communication, or just replacing in-person, telephone, and mail forms?<br /> [06:59] chats during keynotes are great for those of us with ADHD<br /> [07:00] I think Micah's point is that the internet is replacing TV…<br /> [07:00] It is replacing broadcast media with participatory media<br /> [07:00] let's not forget the lenght of the message…<br /> [07:00] Why can't we have both?<br /> [07:00] User Andrew enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:00] i love the extraordinary in the ordinary<br /> [07:00] i'm not actually at this keynote, but i thought i'd log in and say hi to everybody.<br /> [07:00] So, if anything, I would suggest that internet communications expands participatory communications, including face to face<br /> [07:00] we will have both, but only if broadcast media wakes up<br /> [07:00] User Neil enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:00] Tim, glad you could join us.<br /> [07:01] Hi Tim! Long time no talk.<br /> [07:01] if it's short people will digest it… if it's longer… it will just fade away… we're talking about a society that can't stomach more than a few lines of info.<br /> [07:01] The synergy between bloggers and Air America radio (and Olbermann on MSNBC) is an interesting example of what he is talking about.<br /> [07:01] at the airfield<br /> [07:01] he saw the sticker on the palne<br /> [07:01] <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04190/343263.stm" title="http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04190/343263.stm">http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04190/343263.stm</a><br /> [07:02] Dan Gillmor talks a lot about that in his book We the Medoa<br /> [07:02] If a relatively small number of sources (blogs, MoveOn, whatever) dominate internet communication, won't we just have a similar top-down or centralized internet media instead of traditional media, rather than the true participatory media, communication and information distribution that people want?<br /> [07:02] So, where is the place for people to actually think about things rather than just react?<br /> [07:02] getting precognitive on us aldon?<br /> [07:02] And we need politicians to say the same thing…<br /> [07:02] Yeah, I saw that one coming.<br /> [07:02] Taylor, I don't think a small number of sources dominate internet communications.<br /> [07:03] taylorgus – that is what movon, etc want to become but it will never happen<br /> [07:03] Of course this raises big privacy issues….<br /> [07:03] User Ethan_Kiczek enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:04] I've followed some discussions about online retailers like Amazon, and whether they can really maintain some sort of dominance given the relatively low barriers to entry.<br /> [07:04] curious – has anyone read the Borges story The Library of Babel?<br /> [07:04] Everyone wants to be heard, but not a lot of people want to listen<br /> [07:04] that's where constant innovation comes in<br /> [07:04] transparency, transparency, transparency! right on!<br /> [07:04] I'm interested in similar questions about online organizing and communciation.<br /> [07:04] "blogs" are not "a small number of sources"<br /> [07:04] good story on pdf recently about how commoncause exdperienced a revolt when they said they would work with schwartzenegger<br /> [07:05] User JB enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:05] /greencard/<br /> [07:05] Hypothetical library that contains all possible combinations of an alphabet, in the form of books<br /> [07:05] i read the library of babel<br /> [07:05] well, that, and they didnt have anywhere near the staff to organize volunteers. I think they would have controlled us volunteers if they had the manpower.<br /> [07:05] User JB enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:05] yeah and then that didn't translate to the real world<br /> [07:05] User JB leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:05] repubs had six million<br /> [07:05] meaning the library contains an accurate predication of all future events<br /> [07:05] Andrew– The Library Of Babel is totally the internet.<br /> [07:05] and reportage of all present events<br /> [07:06] plus all possible innacurate versions<br /> [07:06] if self organizing is here to stay, then do we need orgs anymore<br /> [07:06] sort of an interesting analogy to blogosphere<br /> [07:06] nope, i'm going home<br /> [07:06] The future on the left may be networks as opposed to centralized organizations.<br /> [07:06] "Let me be outraged and annihilated, but for one instant, in one being, let Your enormous Library be justified. "<br /> [07:06] dan robbinson talks about the internet having so much stuff on it that it is becomming useless, he thinks the answer is tagging, you can listen to him on my podcast<br /> [07:06] wow you know it by heart<br /> [07:06] im impressed!<br /> [07:06] gregory – i think we do need to have some organizations that last if only because memory needs to be maintained<br /> [07:07] I bet he's using the internet!<br /> [07:07] wikipedia.org<br /> [07:07] wheres the podcast?<br /> [07:07] memorty can be maintained online<br /> [07:07] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page" title="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page</a><br /> [07:07] lol<br /> [07:07] te internet is the organization<br /> [07:07] (actually i copy/pasted)<br /> [07:07] "Self organizing is here to stay…" as long as the internet (infrastructure) remains public. The current dismantling of Amtrak is a foreshadowing of what could happen to the "internets" if too much grassroots organizing takes place.<br /> [07:07] Heller, where's your podcast at?<br /> [07:07] <a href="http://gregoryheller.com/?q=node/102" title="http://gregoryheller.com/?q=node/102">http://gregoryheller.com/?q=node/102</a><br /> [07:07] User Ethan_Kiczek leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:08] /yellowcard/<br /> [07:08] the internet<br /> [07:08] i had the answer!!!<br /> [07:08] /greencard/<br /> [07:08] There are some who question whether the internet can be dismantled the way Amtrak can be<br /> [07:08] Micah needs to get to the meaning<br /> [07:08] cool thanks i just bookmarked it to listen to after conference<br /> [07:08] the sinclair node!<br /> [07:08] that's why EFF is important Aldon<br /> [07:08] Amtrak has central funding central administration… The Internet doesn't<br /> [07:08] Yes, EFF is VERY important<br /> [07:09] EFF?<br /> [07:09] <a href="http://www.patridiots.com/000991.html" title="http://www.patridiots.com/000991.html">http://www.patridiots.com/000991.html</a> Sinclair<br /> [07:09] The internet is controlled by a very small number of corporations<br /> [07:09] electronic frontier foundation<br /> [07:09] is this chat really being projected onto a giant screen?<br /> [07:10] <a href="http://www.network-centricadvocacy.net" title="http://www.network-centricadvocacy.net">http://www.network-centricadvocacy.net</a><br /> [07:10] sorry<br /> [07:10] It's actually a medium-sized screen<br /> [07:10] yes tim, but it's a small projector<br /> [07:10] how do you save this chat? just copy and paste into a document?<br /> [07:10] so it takes up about a sixth of the screen<br /> [07:10] that's a lot of math…<br /> [07:10] alison, have you figured out how to archive the chat?<br /> [07:11] Good organizing is good organizing regardless of where it happens. The internet is just another medium.<br /> [07:11] i was going to do what jsresty suggested<br /> [07:12] Wisdom of Crowds <a href="http://www.randomhouse.com/features/wisdomofcrowds/" title="http://www.randomhouse.com/features/wisdomofcrowds/">http://www.randomhouse.com/features/wisdomofcrowds/</a><br /> [07:12] this reminds me of people who hire expensive consultants to hold fucos groups instead of listening to their own employees<br /> [07:12] There is a real danger of a move to "corporatize" the internet, so it becomes all junk mail, with barriers to independent content. (This is happening within the postal service right now, as postal discounts are shifted away from publications and towards advertisers and the largest commercial publishers.<br /> [07:13] <a href="http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/delaycasefile/" title="http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/delaycasefile/">http://www.democrats.org/specialreports/delaycasefile/</a><br /> [07:14] whispers: You whispered to Marty: marty kearns?<br /> [07:14] Guess we're not getting our 10:15 break…..<br /> [07:14] well we started at least 20 minutes late<br /> [07:14] it matters less because of CF<br /> [07:14] yep<br /> [07:15] candidates now have to run around getting lots of small money, which is great if you can get lots of small donors, you need some base first<br /> [07:15] And how did that work out for Dean?<br /> [07:15] User aphutch3 enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:15] well it worked amazing for kerry<br /> [07:15] who took the idea and ran with it<br /> [07:15] lets say you need a million dollars to get your campaign kicked off, you have to collect that from 2500 people<br /> [07:16] rich people and unaccountable foundations may be the same thing….<br /> [07:16] maxing you the donation<br /> [07:16] i should say<br /> [07:16] User JTones leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:16] foundations don't lead, they follow….<br /> [07:16] that's not true totally<br /> [07:17] foundations want to fund organizations, because organizations can e held accountable<br /> [07:17] there are foundations which are supporting the development of internet comm unications technologies to support democracy<br /> [07:17] distributed networks cannot be held accountable<br /> [07:17] soros.org is one place i've seen – and they support moveon.org<br /> [07:17] foundations almost always want to dictate what non profit orgs can do<br /> [07:17] per Micah's point, that's exactly why labor unions and other orgs. mostly funded by membership dues are much more independent<br /> [07:17] Distributed networks are self correcting<br /> [07:18] JAresty, I don't think MoveOn is that important.<br /> [07:18] They are too top down<br /> [07:18] We've been asking questions!<br /> [07:18] yes, DNs are self correcting, but not accountable,<br /> [07:18] same dif<br /> [07:18] that's true – they set the agenda in the first case<br /> [07:18] question: share reflections on independent politics?<br /> [07:18] I'm not sure that MoveOn did set the agenda<br /> [07:19] perhaps marty, but only if funders continue to fund the distributed network and trusts that it has self corrected<br /> [07:19] anyone have any idea what the Green party is doing is this area?<br /> [07:19] moveon was first organized to get the right to lay off the clintons<br /> [07:19] then to get rid of bush<br /> [07:19] can i go to tides and say, My name is GH, i want to start a distributed network to fight for living wage nationally, i am going to have a website, and bloggers, and petitions online, give me 250k<br /> [07:20] which was why soros put up $4<br /> [07:20] to build the system, pay for some advertising, blog ads etc…<br /> [07:20] it is not about large lists. It is about large connections<br /> [07:20] which race Micah? i mean which candidate?<br /> [07:20] right – access is still important when you aim at foundations with large $$<br /> [07:20] you know the interesting thing is, what catches on<br /> [07:20] anyone can start a site<br /> [07:20] temporary ..you don't get to keep my information<br /> [07:20] everyone will have a few readers<br /> [07:21] soros put up one million $$$<br /> [07:21] User nonecknoel leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:21] jon stewart for president!<br /> [07:21] but what makes Move On a big movement and some other site minor<br /> [07:21] Not "inside OR outside" established parties, BUT inside AND outside. Cross-"border" issue alliances.<br /> [07:21] not tru for city council<br /> [07:21] you can;t get teh web straffic<br /> [07:21] fusion politics<br /> [07:21] randydiv – that's a legal nightmare<br /> [07:22] there are only 300k people in a city council district in NYC<br /> [07:22] but those readers are all connected and in a connected society they can quickly synchronize lots of small communities into an action<br /> [07:22] think tsunami relief<br /> [07:22] Shills<br /> [07:22] great question – how does everyone decide to trust online?<br /> [07:22] That is why reputation systems are so important<br /> [07:22] well, the bloggers were getting paid by dean<br /> [07:22] /greencard/<br /> [07:22] what price did they pay when that info came out<br /> [07:23] But doesn't that then lead us back towards a smaller number of sources that might tend to dominate online communication?<br /> [07:23] gregoryheller tha'ts not true<br /> [07:23] that is a mischaracterization by the right<br /> [07:23] whats not true?<br /> [07:23] bloggers getting paid by dean<br /> [07:23] Isn't that why people read the NYT or watch CNN, that out of all the many media outlets they trust those names and reputations?<br /> [07:23] I know they didn;t get paid as much as armstrong williams<br /> [07:23] Matt Gross was paid.<br /> [07:23] bloggers at blogforamerica for sure, but not dailykos<br /> [07:23] But, the issue about Kos and Armstrong is very misleading.<br /> [07:23] and that was upfront information<br /> [07:24] User CT05_Admin enters the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:24] Kos was not paid for what he said… And he fully disclosed what was going on<br /> [07:24] kos had a disclaimer, mydd stopped blogging entriely<br /> [07:24] great riff on building a mass volunteer effort <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/2/4/201559/8691" title="http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/2/4/201559/8691">http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/2/4/201559/8691</a><br /> [07:24] Everyone's bias on the blogosphere is much more obvious<br /> [07:24] "legal nightmare" – huh? I mean that an anti-war coalition, for example, can be a collaboration of democrats, greens, pacifists, etc. They can communicate and coordinate against organizational lines..<br /> [07:25] oh, ok, randy. but the party or a campaign working with an outside group gets into all sorts of FEC issues<br /> [07:25] FEC = head spinning nightmare<br /> [07:25] What becomes even more interesting is trusting friends of friends…;<br /> [07:25] Interesting social moment: the quantification of reputation.<br /> [07:25] Reputation for people that sell service..e-bay for people <a href="http://daylo.com/" title="http://daylo.com/">http://daylo.com/</a><br /> [07:26] FYI, if Alison says someone is trustworthy, I'm going to be much more likely to trust that person<br /> [07:26] so if someone has to be on line for long time and develop a reputation to be trusted, isn't that a huge barrier to entry (particulary given saturation)?<br /> [07:26] Actually, I'll be talking a bit about that at my session<br /> [07:26] (Getting Started blogging for NPOs… 1:30)<br /> [07:26] which session?<br /> [07:26] oh i see sorry<br /> [07:27] Actually, you need to step out of those networks…<br /> [07:27] The networks you need to be part of are the knitting networks… The pug networks….<br /> [07:27] Non-profit blogs = NOPROB<br /> [07:27] Taylor, Very good!<br /> [07:28] /greencard/<br /> [07:28] Thanks. Too bad no smileys in this chat application!<br /> [07:28] :-)<br /> [07:28] there are smily<br /> [07:28] Feel free to steal it!<br /> [07:28] aldon has the idea..it is about putting your strategy and message into others networks not pulling them into your "group"<br /> [07:28] thatnks for male female Micah!<br /> [07:28] Well, that shows you my level of tech expertise.<br /> [07:28] she is an accountable foundation<br /> [07:28] Alison, I guess you are thinking of something like formal coordination between, for instance, the Kerry campaign and Move On. I am thinking more about how someone who is a supporter of the Kerry campaign can, for instance, still work on an antiwar message and carve out an identity as a supporter, but with differences on this issue.<br /> [07:29] the blogswarm is not accountbale, just like a lynch mob, right/<br /> [07:29] aldon's point is very good<br /> [07:29] its pretty easy to write what you want on your own blog<br /> [07:29] or like true democracy depends on your view of man in the state of nature…really big discussion<br /> [07:29] if you want to neltwork, go to other blogs and comment<br /> [07:30] we are seeing alot of politicians now starting to use the power of commenting. Anthony wiener has been posting on Kos<br /> [07:30] blogs are clearly about information and opinion, but are they quite organizing? (i.e. consistently moving people to coordinated action?)<br /> [07:30] Kos can be very offensive. It is very male dominated. And, very much a liberal echo chamber.<br /> [07:31] personal communication always "rubs" some people the wrong way. If you want the other type of communication go read press releases.<br /> [07:31] the democrats are insane<br /> [07:31] Are blogs more accountable because they are, by definition, written & archived so they can be checked out?<br /> [07:31] unfortunately wonkette itsn't a very satisfying alternative at least to me<br /> [07:31] great presentation!<br /> [07:31] Check out what went on with Democracy for Virginia when they blogged about a bill in the State House there.<br /> [07:31] and it is very expensive PDF =$295!<br /> [07:31] User scott leaves the room Saturday Morning Keynote.<br /> [07:31] /greencard/<br /> [07:31] nice job</p>